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Talk:Helix
Confirmed, erase removed helix effect. Tested by casting on a colibri. Coice 02:47, 24 August 2008 (UTC) New Helix Duration Has anyone ran any conclusive tests on how helix duration is affected? The calculations below illustrate a limitation to Modus Veritas based on the original 60seconds, but now helices last at least twice as long. Granted, new mechanics make subsequent uses of Modus less accurate, but it's still worth another stab with a calculator for hypothetical fun. --Coronawolf (talk) 06:03, August 1, 2012 (UTC) Helix Possibilities This is gonna be long, but... I wasn't sure where this would be appropriate to put, whether to put it here or in Modus Veritas.. but given either way, it pertains to Helices regardless.. Modus Veritas * +100% Damage per tick * Remaining time x0.5 * Merits decrease duration penalty by x0.05 per merit point * Full merits = Remaining time x0.75 Helixes * Initial damage = Damage per tick * One tick = 10 seconds = 6 ticks per minute * Taken from: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Talk:Geohelix : Let dINT = Caster's INT - Target's INT : If dINT is less than 80, then D = dINT+24 : If dINT is equal to or more than 80, then D = floor((dINT-79)/2+103) : Floor each of the following: : D*resist*Staff Bonus*Day|Weather Bonus*(MAB/MDB)*Magic Damage Adjustment : Note1: Day|Weather Bonus has a 100% proc. rate. : Note2: I can't be sure, but I assume Ebullience's *1.2 comes at the end. * Merits increase M.Acc by +3 and M.Atk by +2, for maximum of +15 and +10 respectively * Casting when using the appropriate staff boosts the damage and M.Acc further * Casting appropriate Storm spell and Klimaform will increase M.Acc by a significant amount * Casting on appropriate day boosts the effect further ** Picking on enemies that are particularly weak VS things on certain days is even more potent Possible overall damage bonuses: * +10% day * +10% single weather / +25% double weather * +10% Helix merits * +10% NQ staff / +15% HQ staff * +20% Ebullience Most probable bonuses: * +10% weather * +10% merits * +10% NQ staff * +20% Ebullience Now then.. on to the math! Let's say you are a Hume SCH75/RDM37. Speculation on that your INT is 68, with equipment bonuses tallying to +49, giving a total of 117. The enemy's INT is 80. : 117 - 80 = 37 Because 37 is less than 80.. 37 + 24 = 61 : 61 * 1.00 * 1.10 * 1.10 * 1.30 * 1.00 * 1.20 = 117.0312.. and dropping the decimals, to 117 on the initial whack. Taking this into consideration, if you then use Modus Veritas that is fully merited.. the per-tick damage would boost to 234 per tick. With this information in hand, let's say we do more math.. * Duration 45 sec... 234 * 4 = 936 Taking this into consideration.. I wonder what would happen if we put TWO fully merited Modus Veritas into the mix! * Duration 33.75 sec... 468 * 3 = 1404 Let's continue this route, until we obtain the minimum possible tick duration for the x0.75.. which would be SIX Scholars using Modus Veritas... * Duration 10.67~ sec... 7488 * 1 = 7488 Keeping in mind, however, that these numbers are all based on speculation and general estimates. Actual experiences may vary from person to person, but this should at least give a rough idea of what meriting Modus Veritas and the Helix M.Acc/M.Atk can be capable of - showing exactly that a SCH truly can shine as a DoT job. P.S.: Apologies for the horrid look of this, due to it all running together and the like - not very used to the wiki formatting for things. ^^; Now, let's say you use the fact that Modus Veritas decreases the remaining time left on the helix. Given this, and that Helix ticks are every 10 seconds, let's say you wait 9 seconds before having everyone use Modus Veritas.. how many Scholar's can you get to use the ability so that at least one tick will go off, yet will still deal a rather large amount of damage? Considering that recent studies have shown that Modus Veritas, fully merited, would decrease the penalty to a mere 25% reduction instead of 50%... * 51 seconds * (0.75 ^ 13) = ~1.21162046492099761962890625, or when truncated, 1 second. Let's use the same formula and base damage as the previous experiment.. so... * 117 damage * (2 ^ 13) = 958,464 damage on that one single tick I believe that this should give quite a nice show of what is possible with SCH. ^-^ --- Elixer_Of_Quetz 00:54, 02 Nov 2008 (CST) ~Last edit: 15:25, 23 Nov 2008 (CST) A problem may arise if SE's calculations round off to the nearest second when determining remaining duration. Sure, the concept still works, and the damage will still be far more than any mob in the game can take, but significantly less SCHs will be usable. Redler 16:19, 10 December 2008 (UTC) Just curious why would you have to wait until 9 seconds? Modus doesn't lessen the damage done, it halves the time between "ticks" and does double the damage (without merits), so it wouldn't matter when however many Scholar's used Modus, because it'll just do more damage quicker? *No Modus = xdmg every 10 seconds *1 Modus = 2xdmg every 5 seconds *2 Modus = 2^2xdmg every 2.5 seconds *3 Modus = 2^3xdmg every 1.25 seconds *4 Modus = 2^4xdmg every 0.625 seconds *5 Modus = 2^5xdmg every 0.3125 seconds *6 Modus = 2^6xdmg every 0.15625 seconds If other Sch's in the ally can use it too *18 Modus - 2^18xdmg every 0.00003814697265625 seconds I don't know if I'm reading the description wrong or not --Bikpik 16:48, 25 March 2009 (UTC) :Definitely read the description wrong. Modus Veritas doubles the damage done by each tick of a helix spell while reducing the total number of ticks remaining by half. Without merits, it basically will do the same damage in half the time, while with merits it gets... quite a bit more complicated. Simply put, it'll be like this (just copying your chart, Bikpik): :*No Modus = xdmg every 10 seconds, 6 ticks for an average duration helix (1 minute) :*1 Modus = 2xdmg every 10 seconds, 3 ticks :*2 Modus = 2^2xdmg every 10 seconds, 1.5 ticks :*3 Modus = 2^3xdmg every 10 seconds, .75 ticks :*4 Modus = 2^4xdmg every 10 seconds, .375 ticks :*5 Modus = 2^5xdmg every 10 seconds. .1875 ticks :*6 Modus = 2^6xdmg every 10 seconds, .09375 ticks :That's without merits, so it'll be more beneficial to add in merits, as it reduces the duration penalty without reducing the damage/tick bonus. Either way, it'll still beat out most other forms of damage available, especially for the short time that this all happens in. Dunno how to link to stuff outside of the wiki, but here's a great example of this working to it's potential. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjUfc0-Cx2g Yondaime86 18:03, September 29, 2009 (UTC) Now something to note here that makes this ability so difficult is that after the third Modus unmerited (6th with Modus merited) it actually begins to cut into the actual duration of the individual tick. This is apparent in the youtube video in which you can see the time that the initial damage hits and each Modus Veritas is applied. Of course, there is the latency issue that makes things very difficult to actually pin things down... but the initial damage is dealt at :51. The first Modus registers as having landed at :53, and proceeded by 9 Modus Veritas, with the kill registering at :54 and the final Modus registering at :55. No matter what kind of latency issues you are having, it is apparent that the entire thing from initial application to death did not take 10 seconds (closer to 4-5) but more likely is they hit the tick cap and it died instantly as soon as the last modus hit before it ticked. So if by some chance you were able to get a full alliance of 18 SCHs all packed cosily in around AV, It is quite likely that you will only get 10 Modus lands on it at most before it ticks, (Which is plenty more than enough to 1 shot it if the initial damage is high enough). --Delvish.Ind 17:42, October 12, 2009 (UTC) :Kind of dissappointed with Helixes. 329 elemetnal, 131 INT, HQstaff, 5/5 merits and gets greatly resisted on any NM i try to DoT. Stacking? Do helixes stack? I can't remember where I read info on this if I did. I'd like to know if it's a waste to cast 2-3 helix spells in a row on the same target.Snowpaw (talk) 09:37, November 29, 2012 (UTC) :No, only one helix effect (the most recent one applied) will be active on a mob at once. If you want hard proof, go cast a few helices on colibri that can reflect spells (with stoneskin on so they land for zero.) You should only ever receive one debuff. --Coronawolf (talk) 11:04, November 29, 2012 (UTC)